Monday, January 24, 2011

Stacey Barker Hails The Massiah!

Today was another pre trial hearing in the murder case of Stacey Barker, 26, at the Michael Antonovich Antelope Valley Courthouse in Lancaster, CA. Barker is accused of killing her 18 month old daughter, Emma Leigh Barker, on March 18, 2009. When I titled this story, "Stacey Barker Hails the Massiah!" I'm not referring to her praising the lord, Messiah, I have no idea what her religious tenets are. I'm referring to a motion her defense has filed that claims that the State of CA has violated her 6th amendment rights. I'll get into that soon, but first a little background to a case that seems to get stranger and stranger.

Barker originally reported to police that she was loading her daughter into the car after playtime at the Lancaster City Park, when she was attacked and rendered unconscious for several hours before she came to and realized her daughter was missing. After a trip to the hospital to treat her injuries, Stacey Barker was taken to the sheriff's department for questioning. Eleven hours after Emma was reported missing, Barker led law enforcement to her daughter's body that she had left in tall grass on the side of the freeway. Barker claimed her daughter's death was an accident, but because she was afraid of being blamed she disposed of her baby's body then inflicted injuries ( that were consistent with an attack )on herself,  removed and hid parts of her clothing and reported the kidnapping claim. It should be noted that Barker didn't call 911, she called her brother who made the 911 call to law enforcement. When LE arrived at the scene her brother and boyfriend were already there.( Just one more thing in this case that makes you go hmmmm.)

It was nearly a month after Emma's death, before Barker was arrested on April 23, 2009. The charges filed against the Stacey Barker included one count of Second-degree murder, one count of Assault on a Child Causing Death and one count of Child Abuse. Barker has been held at the Century Regional Detention Facility on a one million dollar bond since her arrest. Stacey Barker pled not guilty to all counts at her formal Arraignment on August 12, 2009.

The proceedings today, January 24, 2011 lasted only about a half hour. Stacey Barker's case wasn't called until 11:30 a.m.. The court lists her hearing as starting at 8:30 so Tori and our other friends did have to wait a while. ( I know that sometimes it can be an interesting wait because the court hears other cases in the mean time, but just the same.....Thanks again guys for your time and sharing what you see and hear!)

Defendant Barker didn't look so good when she came in today. Her hair looked like she had been wearing braids that she just took out and hadn't brushed, no makeup today either. Barker's mood seemed to match her appearance, she didn't make eye contact with her family or boyfriend in the courtroom.

I almost feel like I'm putting the cart before the horse by talking about the hearing before explaining the Massiah motion the defense has filed. I'll do that and then go back to the hearing.There have been no issues raised ( that we are aware of ) regarding "Miranda" warnings in this case, but as I said above the defense has filed a "Massiah" motion to suppress any testimonial evidence gathered by Witness X  and the content of the hearing was related to the motion. Let's go over both because the Massiah doctrine supplements Miranda, even though it is a separate and distinct rule.

Most US citizens know that law enforcement must give a  Miranda warning  before subjecting someone to any interrogation when being arrested ( taken into custody and are not free to leave, a situation the court ruled was inherently coercive ).  The purpose of the warning is to ensure the accused is aware of, and reminded of, their rights under the U.S. Constitution. The person in custody must, prior to interrogation, be clearly informed that he or she has the right to remain silent, and that anything the person says will be used against that person in court; the person must be clearly informed that he or she has the right to consult with an attorney and to have that attorney present at anytime during questioning, and that, if he or she is indigent, an attorney will be provided at no cost to represent her or him. A person must clearly waive their fifth Amendment right against self incrimination and the right to an attorney before any evidence gathered in the interrogation will be considered admissible in court.

Just as Miranda gives us Fifth Amendment protection after an arrest, according to the Massiah Doctrine, after the initiation of adversary judicial proceedings (by indictment or by information, preliminary hearing or arraignment), the Sixth Amendment guarantees a defendant the right to rely on counsel as the “medium” between himself and the government. Thus, once adversary proceedings have begun, the government cannot bypass the defendant's lawyer and deliberately elicit statements from the defendant himself.. Massiah is based on the right to counsel. It's application turns not on the conditions surrounding police questioning, but on whether, at the time the government attempts to elicit incriminating statements from an individual, the criminal proceedings against that individual have reached the point at which the Sixth Amendment right to counsel attaches.

The difference between Massiah and Miranda is underscored by the “jail plant” situation, the case where a secret government agent is placed in the same cell with a person and instructed to induce him to implicate himself in the crime for which he has been incarcerated. Miranda does not apply, for the inherent coercion generated by custodial police interrogation is not present when a prisoner speaks freely to a person he believes to be a fellow inmate. Coercion is determined from the perspective of the suspect. Therefore, unless a person realizes he is dealing with a government agent, the government's efforts to elicit damaging admissions from him do not constitute “police interrogation” within the meaning of Miranda.

However, the Massiah doctrine would prohibit the government from using such tactics if adversary proceedings had already been initiated against the person. But the secret government agent was not completely passive in that case; he stimulated conversations about the crime charged. The Court, however, has permitted the government to place a completely “passive listener” in a person's cell and use the statements acquired by such an agent even though adversary proceedings have commenced against the person.

In order for a court to determine that a Massiah violation has occurred two conditions must exist:

1) There must have been an indictment, preliminary hearing or arraignment already held when the violation   occurred..
 2) The informant has to be acting as a government agent, he had to have acted under the direction of the government and there is a preexisting arrangement between the informant and the police.

The line between “active” and “passive” agents—between eliciting incriminating statements and merely listening—is an exceedingly difficult one to draw.

The Supreme Court held that when an inmate working for the government actively prompts an accused to make incriminating statements, this involves active interrogation and is a violation of the accused's Sixth Amendment right to counsel (United States v. Henry, 447 U.S. 264, 100 S. Ct. 2183, 65 L. Ed. 2d 115 [1980]). However, when a government agent passively listens to the accused's incriminating statements, there is no violation of the accused's Sixth Amendment right to counsel (Kuhlmann v. Wilson, 477 U.S. 436, 106 S. Ct. 2616, 91 L. Ed. 2d 364 [1986]). In Kuhlmann, the Court held that, to prove a violation of the Sixth Amendment, "the defendant must demonstrate that the police and their informant took some action, beyond merely listening, that was designed deliberately to elicit incriminating remarks."

Deputy District Attorney Kelly Cromer presented one witness today. Her name is Ellen Aragon. We learn she was the DA in the case which Witness X reportedly testified for the state against, in his own words, " a local street gang that I was trying to get out from under...."  Aragon said that Witness X was subpoenaed to testify in that case, it wasn't voluntary and his life and family had been threatened so he was placed in witness protection. I'll spare you a play by play of the questions Ms. Aragon was asked by DDA Cromer and Stacey Barker's Public Defender, Roberto F. Dager, because the questions were repetitive and in some cases vague, but the jest of it is....the state is trying to show that Witness X is/was NOT a government agent and the defense is trying to show that he IS/WAS.

The burden is the defendants to show that a Massiah violation has occurred and to be fair their efforts have been hampered somewhat by the fact that the case, X admits testifying in, is under seal. The state gave the defense transcripts concerning X's testimony in that case and recordings of Witness X interviews with the state about testifying. Judge Zackey made it very clear that no one except Dager and his investigator are allowed to see the information and neither are allowed to even talk about the contents with anyone else, including the defendant and her family.

Evidently the receipt of a benefit for testifying for the state implies an informant is an agent for the state ??? It's confusing because jailhouse snitches testify all the time for benefits, I guess the question is when was the agreement for benefits made.

Dager tried repeatedly to get Aragon to admit that X asked for benefits in exchange for his testimony (and convince the court?) that when Witness X was put into the Witness Protection Program that was the same as receiving a benefit. Judge Zackey said that Dager's use of the term "benefits" was vague and he didn't agree that entering a witness protection program is a benefit. The next hearing is February 7, hopefully at that hearing we will learn how the judge rules on the defense Massiah motion, if Witness X will be allowed to testify and regardless of his decision a trial date will be set. Judge Zackey stated again he wanted no more delays unless for an important reason adding that this delay caused by the introduction of Witness X to this case is very important.

Superior Court Judge Hayden Zackey has his hands full with this decision.  No one wants a do-over in the event of a conviction in this case. Constitutional violations are definitely a consideration of an appellate court.

Preliminary hearing coverage

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  1. Hi Kat...

    Great story...loved your way of wording it is a little more..
    Yeah, Zacky had his hands full yesterday, this one guy went OFF when JZ said Good morning sir. he was in custody and in cuffs, he started yelling, Just kill me lock me up and throw away the key, you MUTHA FUCCA'S been messing with me my whole life, F U I never asked to be born into the human race or on this planet...JZ asked him to calm down or he would be taken out of the court room..well he continued to scream and cuss at the Judge and he was led to holding by Johnny, as he was led out he said "Crip mutha fucca" you doing me just like you did Tookie (Tookie Williams founder of the LA Crips) JZ said to his PD that he wanted her to have him see 2 Doctors to see if he was ok to aid in his case, then said that maybe with some meds on board he will be able to contol himself in court.

    Then some lady was pissed that she has been having to come as a witness for some time and she has never been called to give her testimony, The DA was talking to her in the courtroom and she started yelling at him telling him she didn't want to talk to him get away from her and she was leaving! she got up and JZ said please sit down and wait, she said I have been coming her for so long and do you understand I have 3 kids in school and things to do one of my kids has to miss school once a week for this matter and nothing is ever done, I am sick of it all. JZ said I am trying to get MR. So and So here right now so we can clear this matter she said she wanted to leave JZ said "if you leave you will have a warrant for your arrest" she said how long will I have to do in Jail? he said you never know, but if you want to find out I will have you arrested and taken away right NOW...if she would be patient he would find who they were looking for and proceed, he then asked if anyone (his court had the Attorney's cell phone number and that lady said I do, JZ said with a quizzed look on his face "you do" she said YEP but he is in the next courtroom, this guy (the one she yelled at) went there an hour ago to get him but spent most of his time gabbing with some woman, I know I was sitting in there watching what he was doing when he was suppose to be getting the other Attorney he didn't even talk to him! no doubt with 3 kids she waited...but they couldn't get to her til after lunch...I wonder if she went back after lunch?

  2. Yes, Dager kept asking EA if X had asked for Benifits in the case the State had against a gang that they supeoneda him to testify in, she said " NO" that he did not even want to testify as he would be killed if he did. at one point he slipped a note to LE or the DA and told them that someone wanted him to lie on the stand and showed him a paper with his Mom's and Girlfriends phone numbers on it, that was a threat that if he didn't do as they wanted his Mom and Girlfriend would be in danger also, so he testified and was placed in witness protection program and the only thing he got was an apartment outside the county of LA.

    Dager said "so, they gave him and his family benefits" she said "NO" only him. RD, so why did he tell anyone about the threats against his family then? she said so someone could be aware of it. a little later he asks "what kind of benefit did X and his family get for his testimony? she said Only he got WP and nothing else and nothing for his family.

    Cromer established that he never wore a wire or held a recording device in the case against the gang, the only recordings are interviews with LE about the threats and he did not act as a GA in that case.

    Dager asked EA about what kind of time he was offered in another case he had pending and she said she did not know that she was only working her case and did not care to know anything about any other cases he had.

    JZ had to make an admission before EA got on the stand, seems she was HIS Boss at one time in Beverly Hills and he had not seen her in many years before today. (he told her if she would stay around they could catch up later)

    JZ gave Dager the "States Transcripts" of Mr.X'S portion of the Testimony in the gang case, RD made some remark about he could be asking to see the whole case file and JZ said that what X testified to in that case was all RD needed.

    Judge Zacky put the Transcripts he gave Dager under a "PROTECTIVE ORDER" and made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that no one could see them except Dager and his Investigator and they could NOT discuss any of the details with anyone but each other, that they could not be copied and they could not be given or discussed with the defendant or her family. there were a few more things that they are not allowed to do with them but I will leave them out, to long.....

    Seems to me X is not that bad a dude, he would not lie on the stand even if it was going to put him and his family in danger and he wants to do the right thing for a innocent child.....

  3. Tori,Thanks for adding some more detail from the hearing.
    I went back and reread the entry from the last hearing with a new prospective having learned about the Massiah doctrine. While doing that I noticed a comment Judge Zackey made about what he may be inclined to do if he finds Witness X works as a government agent:

    Should he find the inmate was acting as a government agent, Zackey said he suspects his only order would be that all audio tapes be given to Dager before trial.. ( Perhaps the state has just turned over the one audio recording they plan to use at trial ?) " The reality is, the information gathered by this witness was recorded " Judge Zacky said adding, "The documents and recordings speak for themselves."

  4. Hey Kat,

    Yep, Det. Nava testified that there were 4 tapes from Sutton and Dager said "well, that is strange I only have a copy of one" I guessed that the other 3 had little or no value to the State that is the reason they were not going to use them, but Dager wants them also, I bet to see if X had asked SB Questions when he was instructed not to, making him a GA by doing so.

    I wonder if this Motion will cause the letters to be thrown out also if the motion is granted?

    Another thing...Dager seemed like he was in a great mood Monday, he saw me in the hall on another floor and smiled and raised his eyebrow's in a "hey there" greeting, I smiled back...maybe he is getting use to seeing us and thinks why be rude anymore they are here til the end...LOL

    There was this guy that day that was acting as his own Attorney and Judge Zackey said "I want to get started on this sir, the case is very old now, it should have went to trial long ago" well, his case is JUST 2 years old, Craig reports that the date for the SB trial to begin is in March, that would make this case 2 years old also! I have no Idea what this guy did, but JZ said "would you concider a Plea" how long would you ask to do? the guy said something like 7 years and JZ said you saw what happened to your co-defendant when he went to trial, I would think you should offer something in the Teens sir..I don't believe this guy was in on a
    Murder either as I didn't see any other 187 on the board outside the courtroom door except for SB'S.
    ttyl, T

  5. Yeah Kat that is the interview with Kelly I saw, you see why I had posted many times how unemotional she was in the ambulance? if my child had been kidnapped there is no way in the world I would be that calm and not frantic or crying like a wounded dog wondering where my baby was and what was happening to her...

    Nope, not her she is trying to ACT (not very well either) like she just woke up from being knocked out for hours and is still dazed and confused, yet she was able to call her brother for help in her confused state.

    If you look at her face in the Ambulance, she has a calm face with NO tears and she does not look scared or as if she had been crying at all, she looks as if she is bored and wants to go home and get some sleep.well, she did have a long day and night the day before and didn't get much sleep that day either.

    It was that News cast that made me think "she did something to that baby" and not believe her first story.

  6. She looked pretty bored too in her first court appearance...rolled her eyes like she was thinking,"I knew they'd blame me for this" of course that's just my perception. She better watch that eye rolling in front of a jury.

  7. Hi Kids!

    Great write up T & Kat - I put a link to the Pond at WS.

    We all came down with the flu here, including my lil love. Absolutely knocked me on my rear - fingers crossed for the next hearing...


  8. LCM! We have been worried about you sister! Sorry to hear you all (especially your lil love) have been sick. Tori said the flu was rampant out there. We have had it here too but thankfully more of a 24-48 hour strain.....followed by weeks of laziness.....well I shouldn't blame that on the flu, more like CABIN FEVER! I'm ready for Spring! Glad you're back in action :)

    Thanks for posting the link at WS too! I would likely have more readers if I got out on the boards more. I'd never get anything done if I did that. (((HUGS)))

  9. Thanks for the update! I can't wait until this goes to trial and she pays for what she did to that precious baby!

    I was wondering if you are going to blog about Julie Schenecker - I have been following the story since it happened and am seriously more disturbed by this story then (almost) anything I have ever heard before. Just the way it went down and they way she murdered her kids is haunting to me. May they rest in peace!

  10. Hi Gia! There was a hearing on 2/7 in the Stacy Barker case but it was continued until 2/14 so will update then.

    Yes, the Julie Schenecker case has bothered me as well. I do have relatives in Tampa that are Airforce and employeed at Tampa General so I may be able to get an interesting insight on this story. I have a feeling this will be a true case of mental illness but that is not a legal defense unless she can meet the high legal standard for insanity.

    Unfortunately, Mr. Katfish was in the hospital again last week and was just admitted again today....and I am way behind on the Nicholas Sheley case (spree killer of 8, I am attending hearings in his capital murder case for his "alleged" victim in my hometown). I will catch up on Sheley and then see what I can find out about the Schenecker case.

    The good news is I brought my netbook up to the hospital and am able to hook into their wifi. Woo hoo! Check back :)

  11. I am a resident of Palmdale CA and am curious about the Stacey Barker murder trial. I understand that she was back in court on the 14th of February 2011 and was wondering how that is going.

  12. Hi anon 2/16,
    Not much happened on Mon 2/14 and the hearing was continued to 2/17 (tomorrow). I will combine the coverage of the 14th and the 17th in one post. In the meantime Tori attended the hearing on the 14th and posted a short summary at the link below I gave an explanation of some of the legal aspects after Tori's comment.... we're a tag team :)

    I usually post my blogs on this case here and then over at NowPublic. Please check back.We "should" be hearing a trial date soon.

  13. Anon, Tori's summary is towards the bottom in the comments section.

  14. George is going to be the "Reasonable Doubt"
    Rightfully so!

  15. Hey Anon 3/9,
    Who is George? I don't know of any Georges related to Emma Barker's death.
    Did you mean to comment on a Casey Anthony post? If so...comment there, I'd like to hear more and I'll share my thoughts too.

  16. Is there an update on the 2/17 court hearing?

  17. Gia, thanks for asking :) Mr. Katfish has been quite ill so I haven't had a chance to write an update...I can tell you STILL no trial date. DH comes home from the hospital today so I will try to put something together this evening or tomorrow.

  18. Hi Kat - Thinking of you and Mr KF! Hoping he is feeling better and you're doing well. We miss you!

    (((HUGS))) LC

  19. LCM,
    Thanks for stopping by.I miss you too. I have tried to write but have had my first bout of writers sucks!
    Mr. Katfish is home again. The last 2 days have been good....hopefully that will continue. There were 2 more hearings in this case this week. Mon was continued to Wed. The Wed hearing was mainly arguments between the parties about discovery issues and expert testimony. The next hearing is on April 1....word is the judge may set a trial date then....we've heard that before. ◔̯◔...

  20. Katfish -

    Sorry to hear about your hubby! I do hope he is doing better! I have been trying to follow the Julie Schenecker case but not much has happened. It still makes me so sick when I think about it! Please update about Ms. Barker when you can :) Thanks again for all your hard work...I totally appreciate what you do!

  21. Hi Gia! Thanks for your kind thoughts and your patience with my delay in blogging. Mr. katfish has had a couple of good days....hopefully that is going to be the trend....poor guy.

    There have been several hearings in the Stacy Barker case, but they went nowhere despite threats from the court of sanctions! The most recent hearing was a battle over discovery.....still!!!!

    The next hearing is Friday, April 1st. Judge Zackey said that he would like to get this trial started the week of April 4 but added that he will enter rulings on all outstanding motions and set a date for trial on the 1st. Can you believe it? It's about time!
    I'll believe it when we see it.

    IMO, Judge Zackey is a good judge but he has let the defense delay this case again and again.....

    I haven't been able to follow the Julie Schenecker case or talk with my family in Tampa to see if they had any inside scoop.I too get sick to think about those poor kids. Did they know what she was doing? Did they try to beg for their lives? Geeshh! I hope they didn't know what was coming!

    I WILL write an update on the Barker case if something actually happens on Friday. Check back!

  22. Hi Girls,
    here is the update from the 4/1/11 hearing!
    The Courtroom doors were not open at 8:30AM so we had to sit in the hall, a Blond girl was talking to the Maternal Grandfather she may have looked at us but I don't think so.

    In court today are the Grandparents, the Maternal Grandpa, BB and 2 blond young ladies, they take the front row as always.

    SB is brought out and she sees everyone in the front row and does a half smile, her hair is straight and shorter then it was, so she must have gotten a haircut. she sits next to RD and stares straight ahead at the Judge, not even trying to look back to see the family or friends.

    Today started out with JZ telling RD & KC that they will all act professionally. that he was glad he had DECAFE today, RD said something back but we really couldn't hear what it was.

    KC started out by saying that Dr.Bonnell still has not given the statement that she wanted and he was not there today as JZ had ordered, that she would like him excluded as a witness.

  23. JZ said that RD should call Dr.Bonnell and ask him to submit the report, RD said "I AM NOT GOING TO CALL HIM" the state knows what I know, they have talked to him, they know what he is going to say, I am not going to call him. JZ said "so are you going to be calling him as a witness" RD said I can not say yet. JZ said it sounds like you are not going to use him as a witness..JZ then asked if Dr. Bonnell was going to say something different then Dr.Ribe? RD said NO he is going to say the same thing that Dr.Ribe said, that there is no Conclusive cause of Death, KC said, I am tired of Him misstating the facts your honor, Dr.Ribe Has a COD and it's the the Coroners report..

    RD said that Dr.Ribes opinion was formed by the Sheriff's and that they led him into his conclusion as to COD.

    JZ said will Dr. Bonnell say that it was not a Homicide? no real answer to this question. all 3 went back and forth about this but nothing really to write about, well KC said that this discovery that she has been waiting for from Dr.Bonnell is what has been dragging the case on and DB is a Hired Gun he is going to say what the defense wants, that in some cases DB has not been allowed to testify or something like that, she said it so low it was hard to hear over the other Attorneys talking...

  24. JZ said that RD will have to give KC a statement from DB by 1:30PM today or he is going to start imposing sanctions per sec 1054..he goes on to outline sanctions that can be Imposed.

    I don't know what RD objected to but he said he vigorously OBJECTS to that! JZ said I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll have my reporter put it in the Record in BOLD and UNDERLINED that you OBJECT!

    There is some talk of 2 6 pack photos that a witness has made a ID on, the person or persons in the photo line up were at the Park and Ride, I don't know if BB got a phone call or had to use the restroom but he got up and left when this discussion about PNR was brought up, he returned quickly though.. RD said something about a conspiracy and why is this being brought up just now, he wants copies of the 6 packs and he wants some phone records from the Phone company, JZ said that he would sign a order for the Phone company to give him the records within a week.

    They go back to the DB thing again so JZ said he will have a In Camera with them and the court reporter, they leave and when they come back, JZ said OK, so you will not be calling DB as a witness is that right RD said, no I will not be calling DB....

    JZ said that the next court date is 4/11, that they have 10 days to start the trial after this date, he does not think that Jury selection is going to take only 1 or 2 days to select (IMO he knows RD is going to dismiss many potential Jurors) and the Trial he is in right now is going at a snails pace.

    JZ is about to wrap up this hearing when RD said, there are 2 witnesses in the court today JZ asked them to stand and state their names and spell them for the Reporter, One is Amber and the other is Jennifer Goodnight, the Supervisor of AB and SB at BOA. KC said I want to state that they are seated with the RD shoots back....I want to note one is wearing Gray and one wearing black...WTH..everyone I mean everyone was laughing at RD, it even looked to me that JZ was holding back a laugh. sometimes he Say's the dumbest things. RD said that he had not talked to these witnesses and he wanted to talk to them after the end of this hearing, KC said she wanted to speak with them also.

    Tell me how you have witnesses on your list and have not talked to them yet in 2 years? we all know AB might be called as a wit since the beginning so I think he has talked to her before I don't know this has been one wacky case so far....

    I felt after a little time had passed that I had seen the one Blond girl before and told Ange that it was AB but the last time I saw her she had darker hair with streaks of red, it did turn out to be her, she did not give us any negative looks or talk about us to the Grandparents while we were there. I think that showed she has respect even if she does not like us, some people her age or any age for that matter would not have had that kind of manners for people they didn't care much for...

    The other Blond girl Jennifer was sitting with the family also but I only saw her speaking with AB, IMO I think she was seated next to AB as a comfort thing so she was not sitting alone, maybe if AB was sitting elsewhere JG would not have been sitting with the family.

    Co-Worker, didn't you say that JG was hard on both of the girls? I don't know what KC was trying to say when she said "they are sitting with the family" does JG know the Family, It did not look like it but we don't know.

    We will see what 4/11 brings....I had a FULL day yesterday and fell asleep at the computer while typing this up, FAMILY DUTIES! I am sorry I have made you wait so long, I know you understand...LOL.

    Kat, It was nice talking to you last night, don't worry things will fall into place, it seems like when it rains it pours and I am not talking about are doing a great job at taking care of things.

    Big Hugs to all T, and as usual if I remember anything else of Importance I will be back later

  25. This half should be in the middle of the story I don't know how I left it out....

    JZ said that RD should call Dr.Bonnell and ask him to submit the report, RD said "I AM NOT GOING TO CALL HIM" the state knows what I know, they have talked to him, they know what he is going to say, I am not going to call him. JZ said "so are you going to be calling him as a witness" RD said I can not say yet. JZ said it sounds like you are not going to use him as a witness..JZ then asked if Dr. Bonnell was going to say something different then Dr.Ribe? RD said NO he is going to say the same thing that Dr.Ribe said, that there is no Conclusive cause of Death, KC said, I am tired of Him misstating the facts your honor, Dr.Ribe Has a COD and it's the the Coroners report..

  26. RD said that Dr.Ribes opinion was formed by the Sheriff's and that they led him into his conclusion as to COD.

    JZ said will Dr. Bonnell say that it was not a Homicide? no real answer to this question. all 3 went back and forth about this but nothing really to write about, well KC said that this discovery that she has been waiting for from Dr.Bonnell is what has been dragging the case on and DB is a Hired Gun he is going to say what the defense wants, that in some cases DB has not been allowed to testify or something like that, she said it so low it was hard to hear over the other Attorneys talking...

  27. Tori, Thanks so much for posting about the 4/1 hearing and of course special thanks for attending. Your a peach! Hehe I didn't know they grow peaches in the high desert. {{HUGS}}

  28. You are so welcome....Shoot girl we have a Peach tree in the back yard that Ange pampers (she loves peaches) if the kids kick the ball into it or the dogs go near it or heaven forbid one of the kids pick one before it is ripe, she has a fit!!! LOL really! we have a Raspberry bush growing I love me some Raspberries, the Strawberry plant is not doing so well..we are big fruit people, so I go to Leona Valley (about 15 miles from me)Every June for the last 6 or more years to pick my own Cherries...mmmmmm yummy, there is about 30 Cherrie farms that sell Pick your own and if you don't get there fast the trees are picked bare in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks time because some people are bussed in from all over Southern Cal in tour busses to buy you pick em Cherries.....they also have Asian pears but I don't care for them as much as the Cherries.LOl talk to you later...T

  29. ooops I spelled buses and bused wrong above sorry...

  30. Haha! I knew what you meant! Thanks for the education...who knew...peaches in Cali? Love rasberries too. Priced some here at the store other day...almost $5 for little container :( YEP Love me some cherries too! Gonna have to make my way out there someday :)

  31. LOL sure come on down we can go cherry picken...I know Rasberries are not cheap that is why I bought a bush and am trying my hand at them! they were small last year when I planted em but the were sweet...let's see how this year is they just started to bloom the other day..
    I saw that post from Dec from her celley...sorry, she had NO compassion for Emma that day and NO emotion that night she was loaded into the were so right in telling her that accident or murder she did the wrong thing by throwing Emma away and making up a stupid story that didn't even fly with non Law Enforcement officers.
    I think Kelly is doing a great JOB, our local hero, defender of Children and Animals who can't speak for themselves.
    SB will get what is coming to her..this person said she cannot be judged by her peers, what? isn't that what a Jury is? she will also be Judged by God but at her age that won't be for a long time. Anon thinks SB did it, yet she has compassion for her? I don't understand some people....
    Good nite all, T

  32. Hi Gals!

    Really interesting concept - no judgement AND compassion - for baby killers no less. Maybe we should just let them all remain free so they can live their lives as they see fit. No harm, no foul. I don't think so!

    Take care my friends.


  33. LC...

    That is what I thought...WTH compassion, if she had shown compassion Emma she would still be here, if SB showed any type of feelings ANY of the times she was in court, hearing Emma's name or when anyone uttered the ugly words
    homicide,smothered and thrown in the tall grass, maybe I would have some kind of empathy for her but as it stands I think the only tears she will shed in the court is when she is found Guilty of any or all of the 3 charges she has against her, the tears won't be for Emma they will be for herself!
    How are you doing LC? Everyone here said to say HI!

  34. Hey T and LCM,
    Thanks for stopping by :) The comment made by the person who was in jail with SB was made April 3. The date appears below the post.

    I don't think the anonymous 4/3 said that SB shouldn't be punished with jail but was implying that we should be compassionate to SB because she has to have some kind of mental disorder rather than be judgemental....because God will do the judging. She is entitled to her opinion but then no more so than we to ours and that is what I said in my reply. It was interesting to learn SB is in PC.

    T, with the price of Rasberries you better gaurd that bush or put Ange on know being she has already got the peach tree covered :)Cherry picking sounds like fun...I can get the high ones....I'm almost 6 ft tall. LOL

  35. Any word on a trial date yet?

  36. Gia, I'm waiting to hear from Tori right now. There was another hearing today that should be just wrapping up (as I write this response), the third hearing this week. As of yesterday the judge is planning jury selection on next Monday. The way things have gone with this case I'll believe it when I see it. I am working on a new post right now....just waiting to hear what happened today. Check back this weekend :)

  37. Hey Kat The suspense is killing me! Question for you - is the picture of Emma (dressed as Snow White) accepting the apple from SB too inflammatory for the story you are working on? It seems somehow appropriate for the trial thread - but I won't use it if you gals think it's too much.

    Hope everyone is well in your neighborhood!

  38. Hello LCM, I think the pic with the apple is fine....I mean hey, it's not like we used photoshop on that pic, MOTY paid to have it taken so we may as well use it. If you want to save it for your trial coverage that's fine. I figured a time would come along that it would be appropriate. :) I wonder if that Snowwhite dress was Emma's Halloween costume in 2008?

    Tori just posted a check-in on fb at a restaurant in Palmdale a little while ago so she probably won't call until late. She has had a busy week!

    I just have a problem believing they can get all the discovery and motions settled by Monday so they can start jury selection. JZ did say he would rule on some of the 45 motions (38 defense, 7 state) based on the briefs and would spend last night at home watching videos that the defense wants in.

    We're hanging in here at the katfish land. Unfortunately my Mr.'s legs are a chronic problem...they are relatively good today. Major storms are hitting tonight, but no tornado warnings, so all's good.